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Post by ianindependent on Sept 24, 2014 16:31:23 GMT
I've just posted a reply regarding Tindersticks and got to thinking about solemn music and LPs in particular. Are there any genuinely sad albums? After all they are all essentially entertainment and we play them to put us in a mood. Therefore it is artificial, surely? Songs can make us sad because they remind us of loss but that isn't the song itself it is the connection.
Anyway, I've had arguments before sometimes about Morrisey because although I'm not his biggest fan at his best he is as funny as f*ck! I don't get this miserablist malarkey. He is miserable in the way Les Dawson was you laugh at him and his misfortunes. More often I used to get in debates about LOu Red's Berlin. That is a very funny album especially 'The Bed'. Wow! It's so over the top with it's black humour. Someone once said to me that listening to that album made them want to slit there wrists and having read reviews of it at the time a lot of the press thought similarly.
What do other people think?
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richc6
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Post by richc6 on Sept 24, 2014 16:52:58 GMT
I think you need to spell Morrissey correctly!
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Post by ianindependent on Sept 24, 2014 17:04:33 GMT
I don't think I do. Given his penchant for using double negatives correct English is not a concern for him. However, in an effort to prove what a good egg I am I will in future style him with his full title of Mr Morris Clitheroe therefore pre-empting any future concerns.
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Post by rebelliousderek on Sept 24, 2014 18:53:18 GMT
Joy Division's Closer is probably the most genuinely sad album ever recorded both for the content and what happened immediately after it was recorded.
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richc6
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Post by richc6 on Sept 24, 2014 22:10:30 GMT
Yeah side 2, particularly, of Closer had a huge impact on me when I heard it back then. So hard to determine if it was the events or the music I suppose. All mixed up in the mists of time. That side plays like one suite of music for me. Ian if you only misspell Morrissey's name due to his grammatical errors, how the hell do you spell Ian Dury?!
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Post by davecook on Sept 24, 2014 23:18:20 GMT
Yes, of course music can be sad. Sparse minor chords on a piano, the melancholy timbre of the oboe and the dense mournfulness of the cello naturally evoke those feelings without there being any connected memory. Nick Cave's delivery invests an undercurrent of sadness to something as straightforward and lovely as 'Into My Arms.'
Largely agree about The Smiths. If you remove the vocal from 'Girlfriend In A Coma' it's a right jaunty little number.
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Post by ianindependent on Sept 25, 2014 17:39:16 GMT
I agree with all the above. Closer is certainly affecting but that does have something to do with the circumstances. It has to and as I am playing devils advocate here. I would suggest that if Curtis couldn't have found any rope that night or just put a porn video n therefore remained with us 'Closer' would now just be another JD album. Much like I said about Tindersticks.
I would normally spell Iain Jury 'Spaz' just as he would probably would!
Dave, I see what you are saying and 'Into My Arms' along with, controversially, 'No Pussy Blues' could have been quoted on the lyric thread. However, the melancholic timbre you mention is all very well but we only play something like Shostakovich's preludes and fugues or say Chopin's Nocturnes because we are feeling that way inclined anyway. Do they actually change your mood.
In much the same way that I heard the story behind Elton John's 'Song For Guy' and was suddenly engaged by it. Unfortunately, I also remember being quite moved by 'The Killing Of Georgie (Parts I & II).
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richc6
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Post by richc6 on Sept 25, 2014 17:54:46 GMT
Music is all about the context in which it was conceived. There, I've decided.
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Post by ianindependent on Sept 26, 2014 16:44:47 GMT
Music is all about the context in which it is received. There. I've decided
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richc6
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Post by richc6 on Sept 29, 2014 18:27:18 GMT
Music is all about the context in which it is received. There. I've decided Is it really though? Would you have appreciated the early punk bands as much if you had been 30 years younger and say heard it 30 years later? The reason that punk emerged and the time and context in which those first singles like Anarchy, New Rose and I'm Stranded appeared, so informed what it sounded like. The back to basics aggression was all about kicking out the dullness of uninspired pseudo prog, tired sounding rock bands and errrr that dreadful lot who did They Shoot Horses Don't They. listening to the early punk records now, can be a fairly dull listen as they inevitably sound a bit cliched and not much more than amped up rock and roll. But us old gets know just how incredibly exciting it was the first time we heard Rotten singing "right...now". I can't see how somebody who wasnt really aware of the context of the times, would really appreciate it.
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Post by ianindependent on Sept 30, 2014 17:39:34 GMT
I think that is what I was saying. If I were my dad age in 77 and into Mario Lanza, Al Jplson and Sinatra. I would not have been impressed as I wasn't at the time by the three legends mentioned who I can now listen to quite happily. So as a spotty oik teenager who had already been through T.Rex, Slade, Black Sabbath and my mothers softish popish rock 'n' roll singles I was prepared for the explosion that was Punk and received it in that context. Can we not agree, please? It seems like it is a waste of a forum if that continues.
To spike this touching camaraderie with a injection of venom can I just say I presume by 'They shoot horses' lot you mean Horslips who were very much an influence for Clover who supported the former band on tour but then backed Elvis Costello. Perhaps, you could have thought of a better example (#7 in JPs Festive Fifty!) especially as in the context of the film it is a very good song... or am I perhaps just looking for another argument? You decide!
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richc6
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Post by richc6 on Sept 30, 2014 20:29:50 GMT
It was Racing Cars.
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Post by ianindependent on Sept 30, 2014 21:14:28 GMT
Was it? Same applies less the Costello connection. It is still a half decent song especially in the context of the film and still in the festive fifty Top Ten.
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richc6
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Post by richc6 on Sept 30, 2014 21:24:31 GMT
It was synonymous to me with the dull, drab, greyness of the mid-70s. Then along came this...get off your arse!
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Post by ianindependent on Sept 30, 2014 21:53:49 GMT
Exactly right. This goes back to what I was saying before. It has to be in context. If we had had 30 years of bands trying to be the sex pistols Many people would be longing for Clover / Horslips / Racing cars or whatever. Not long after the above groups like 'Everything But The Girl', 'Working Week' .... The Daintees, Prefab Sprout came along with melodies, structures and all round better songs and musicianship. There then followed a lot of crap bands and solo artists who tried to do more gentle and melodic work because it was cool but they couldn't. There's good and bad in all types of music. Variety is the spice of life as they say and you listen to what you want to hear.
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